| Date Posted: 12/15/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
Number of Replies: 30
Last Post: 12/19/2008 |
| | The faerie menace | | Maybe i am wrong, but ive seen really broken decks and faeries , while very good, doesnt seem to be one of those decks. I have friends who play and most of them agree. I was wondering what you guys think. Is faeries the beall endall of standard decks or am i right. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/15/2008
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| It is not broken, but it easily dominates standard to the point wnough of needing to be controlled somehow. Fae is now what dragonstorm used to be in standard.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 12/15/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| I think that smart play can do that. Back when dragonstorm was standard legal, it was doran that won worlds. And as far as today, 90 out of about 300 players played faeries at worlds, so ofcourse it won. Imagine this list=
4 cloudthresher, 4 collossus, 4 wrensvanquisher, 4 gaddok teeg, 4 inversion, 4 wolfskull shaman, 4 cribswap, 4 stillmooncavs, 4 thoughtseize.
That is a deck of the top of my head that can compete with faeries. Thats not even considering sideboard wispmare, o-ring, hurricane, among others. Hell, you could maindeck doran and shreikmaw if you want. Red has just as many awnsers, just try to keep scion of oona in play with mogg fanatic. The point is that standard has so many options to play good cards now that i think its impossible to not beable to hate a deck out. The deck i listed above could compete with most standard decks, with demigod red giving it the biggest problem. |
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| Date Posted: 12/15/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| One last thing, for all of you buget-builders, a list of common cards that can be good vs faeries =
distress , terror , festercreep , any burn spell sent to thier face , wispmare , o-ring , remove soul , negate , any creature that cost 3 or less that is 2/2 or more, hurly burly ( yes, crappy hurly burly ) kills all of their non mistbound clique creatures.
It gets even better with uncommons =
kitchen finks , boggart ramgang , Both esper and jund charm along with bant charm , raking canopy, among others. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Don't you see? The problem is not that it can't be beat, or that it is too dominating, it's that you pretty much have to build against it, weakening the overall effectiveness of your deck. I'm not saying that it's overpowered, I'm saying Bitterblossom was the biggest mistake they have made in a while, almost as bad as skullclamp, in my opinion. Bitterblossom is so good even non-Fae decks run it. I think that they shouldn't have made Bitterblossom create Faeries, maybe flying spirits or something like that.
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Josh Hendricks
Member Since: 8/7/2008
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| The casting cost is the real issue. Even having a CMC of BB1 would have made Bitterblossom a much more manageable threat. At least then it could be countered if you're on the draw. As it is now, you can drop a Bitterblossom before the other guy has a chance to counter. I remember this one time I cast a Bitterblossom on turn one and I...Jizzed In My Pants.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Then I cast a turn 2 Mistbind Clique and I...Jizzed In My Pants.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| i read this thread then i JIZZED IN MY PANTS
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| for the love of science, someone get a towel.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| It seems that some of you guys need to discover a way to find some ladys. If your jizzing your pants all the time that can be a serious problem , ruining clothes, sticking to random people, not to mention the extra laundry. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Haha, Josh you need to put that link up to youtube here for the video of I JIZZED IN MY PANTS! Oh and by the way I JIZZED IN MY PANTS just thinking about that video!
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| I also want to respond to some other things said. I understand your position on bitterblossom and i agree with josh, i think that it should have cost 3 mana, not2. Having said that, i have already stated my case vs faeries so i wont repeat that. However, i would like to point out that magic is a game of stratagy and intelligence. Ben, you posted that the faeries match makes you stay on your toes and play perfectly, and you dislike this. I can understand this. However you have also stated that you wish to become a magic pro. If this is the case, you will ALWAYS have to play like that. The point that i am trying to make is that in magic there will always be dominant decks. You will never escape the faeries, the affinity, the tron, the rebels, the dragonstorm decks. I mean, the list goes on and on, and it will continue as long as there is competitive magic. The point that i am trying to make is that magic is a game, and the point of playing a game is to both win and have fun. I firmly beleave that stratagy is the most important part of this game, and with stratagy, youcan beat any deck. One last thing, i checked the tournament results at the hobbyhorse and the most dominant players are mike dale and christian collodi. How many times do they play faeries? I havent seen christian post a fae deck yet. Mike dale doesnt post his decks at all, for some reason, but i doubt that he playes faeries each week! And if he does, and he wins as often as he does, than that is the feilds fault for not being better prepared for a predictable deck. Let me know what you guys think. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| You're right, I need to get used to the fact that I have to be able to play tight all of the time. I just don't like the fact that if you have no way to deal with Bitterblossom, you lose, plain and simple. I could possibly waste a turn dealing with bitterblossom, but chances are they would counter it, or be in control of the game by that time. I just don't like the HAVE TO DEAL WITH OR LOSE cards. It takes a deck spot to deal with one card. If you don't have a response, it's almost a guaranteed loss. That is why Faeries is bullcrap.
Pwn'd. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| I went to Bloomington last Friday with my Mistveil Control deck and went 3-1 placing 3rd, they had no finals. My only loss was to a Faerie deck. In one of the games, I didn't draw well and Bitterblossom took over the other thanks to his Scion of Oona. So far, that is the only match loss that I've had playing that deck. IMO, it is the most resilient deck out there. To me, it doesn't matter how many Fae killers Wizards throw into the environment, the deck will find a way around it. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Maybe they'll make a split second destroy all faeries card.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| How about a card that removes all cards with the creature type "Faerie" from the game, including hand, graveyard, library, and play? |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| Thats why you use cards that are good vs multiple situations. Ive talked about wispmare alot, but it is insane vs the fae. Its a perfect awnser to blossom, plus it can block almost any faerie and survive. Stillmoon cav is another multi-funcion card that is good vs the fae, plus it is nuts vs the white aggro decks out there. And the reason that i love cloudthresher so much is that thresher is insane vs so many decks. Ive already talked about how it hurts the fae, but consider a suprise block vs demigod. The red deck needs multiple removal spells to deal. I must partially agree with you pennydude, the fae are very resilliant. Most good decks are, and the fae are no exception. A question for you = Is the mistveil control deck that you posted the same one that your talking about in your last post. If so, then if you dont mind, i have a suggestion. Two creatures, plumeveil and kitchenfinks. Fae players hate to see either of those resolve. You could also bump jund charm up to 4, because it is savage vs the fae, while being good vs most aggro and an absolute killer vs an up and comming deck = revillark. Just some suggestions, i hope that they help. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| One last thing, im not trying to rant. I appologize if it seems like i am. I just beleave in creative thinking. I support netdecking , however, if you just play the 75 card list card for card then you are asking for trouble. Alot of fae players, like other " netdeckers " , just coppy a netlist and play it without thought. This is a mistake. The problem is that most people are sheep and can be led by the nose. I am not one of those people. I netdeck, but always with a thought of the environment and with a thought to other peoples trends. If the fae are popular, then people will play them. I look forward to the opportunity to prove the masses wrong. The cards are there to hurt the fae. There is no need to introduce new cards to hose whole creature or card types. Have you ever played white and someone plays flashfire? Or played red locked down under conversion? IT SUCKS! The cards are already there to combat the fae, you just need to use them. |
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| Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| I took out 1 Dawnglow Infusion and 2 Covenant of Minds for another Beacon of Immortality and 2 Tidings. I don't have the Finks in the deck because it's a creatureless deck. It's designed to stall the opponent leaving their creature kill spells left for dead. So far, the loss to Faeries has been my only match loss, and I'm not worried about it in Taylorville. The only person that will regularly play it is Bruce. I didn't know the meta up in Bloomington, so I brought what I thought was a good deck. I beat a mono-red with W/G splash handily. I also easily beat Cruel Control. He stood no chance. Then I beat a Ad Nauseum/Seismic Assault deck hands down. But, in the end, Fae got the best of me. Reveillark has always been one of the top decks out there. And I have 2 Jund Charm mainboard and 2 in the sideboard. That deck should be able to beat Faeries. It just depends on the draw. |
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 | Date Posted: 12/16/2008
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| Before the rotation of time spiral block, Porphyr Nodes would be a good answer for annoying tokens. something like that could help. Cloudthresher is useful, you just have to know how to play it. And there's something else I've noticed too. When Firespout first came out it was hyped about so much; now, it only shows up in some lists. *shrug*??
... |
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| I agree that faeries are not overly dominant. They are great against control decks, but merely average against agro decks. The best card against Faeries is a first turn Figure of Destiny. Faerie decks are not nearly as dominant as Necropotence decks and Affinity decks were in their standard heyday. Bitterblossom is a strong card but not overpowered in my opinion. It is ok in nonfaerie decks, but tends to kill you as often as it wins the game for you. It's not nearly as broken as cards like Skullclamp,Necropotence, Umezawa's Jitte, or even Arcbound Ravager. It rarely sees play in formats other than Standard or Llorwyn block.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 12/17/2008
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Figure isnt bad actually. Fae maindeck 4 peppersmoke.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 12/17/2008
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Zack, I haven't seen a Faerie deck out there that main-decked Peppersmoke and won. Maybe sideboard. Just saying that Peppersmoke sucks because you HAVE to have it in your opening hand to deal with a first turn Figure, or else it turns out being pretty much useless.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 12/17/2008
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I won M-L tournies, MB Peppersmoke. I love it.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 12/17/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| Figure can hurt the fae on first turn, but what hurts the fae the most is the consistant pressure that deck with figure can provide. Peppersmoke is ok for the fae, as it lets you draw a card, but id rather have terror. And one last thing, faeries is just as dominant today as ravager was in its heyday. Look at the results, ravager won less reigonals, less block ptqs, and ravager ( with the broken skullclamp ) was destroyed at its worlds by a slide deck. Ravager then, like faeries now, was a good deck. Pros back then adapted to a affinity envirnoment, and they will do so for this environment as well. Even before the ravager bannings affinity was containable. I just hate it when a good deck comes around and people scream " ban it,ban it ". My question to these people is " what happened to creativity"? I just beleave that if people would try to think their way around a problem and spend less time complianing about said problem, they would be better off. |
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| One difference I can see between Affinity and Faeries is the amount of main deck hate devoted to each deck. In the Mirrodin era it was not unusual to see mono-green or mono-red decks running 16+ main deck artifact removal spells. Even decks running this much hate could still lose to the lucky multiple disciple draw though. I have seen very few decks running 4 main deck Cloudthresher, 4 Vexing shusher, 4 Gutural Response, 4 Hurricane, and 4 Wispmare main deck. In the height of the Affinity days you had to either play Affinity or a deck designed specifically to eat it. There is quite a bit more variety in the current Standard, and decks built specifically to hate Faeries are seldom seen.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 12/18/2008
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| I agree, Christian. Plus, it would be hard to build a deck with all the cards you mentioned and still have game against the other decks out there. |
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| Date Posted: 12/18/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| I will give you 2 decklists, one from the current standard and one from mirrodin block. Both of these decks have game vs the " superdecks ", while being competitive in thier respective formats. First, mirrodin block =
21 forest
3 blinkmoth nexus
4 viridion zealot, 4 troll astetic , 4 viridian shaman, 4 fangeren firstborn, 4 tangle asp, 4 echo of courage, 4 moulderslug, 4 eternal witness, 4 beacon of creation.
Board = 3 bloodscent, 4 sword of fire and ice, 4 tel- justice, 4 creeping mold.
The deck that i just listed has game vs any mirrodin block deck. It has ways to slow tooth n nail, can race red burn, has 20 ways to destroy artifacts, and can preetymuch compete with any mirrodinblock deck, bannings or not.
Now on to standard =
4 reflecting pool
4 treetop village
4 giltleaf palace
4 murmoring bosk
2 wooded bastion
2 twighlight mire
4 vivid marsh
4 stewart of vaeleron, 4 wrens vanquisher, 4 doran, 4 collossus, 4 cloudthresher, 2 gaddok teeg, 2 shreikmaw, 4 inversion, 4 thoughtseize, 2 cribswap, 2 lox warhammer
Board = 3 o-ring, 3 wispmare, 3 bitterblossom, 2 cribswap, 2 gaddok teeg, 1 lox hammer, 1 shriekmaw.
This deck has serious game in standard. It is a disruptive-aggro type of build, which has game vs 5 color control. Its built to smash the fae, and just imagine using cribswap vs demigod. gaddok teeg and o-ring can deal with planeswalkers. Bitterblossom is so good vs the whole feild. I seriously think that this deck has the potintial to compete in standard while being made to really hurt the fae. Let me know what you think. |
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| I used to play that green deck back in Mirrodin block, although I used Oxidize instead of the Tangle Asps. Your Rock decks looks good. I like to run Scarblade Assasin in builds like your are running, though. You allready have 10 assasins in the deck, adding 4 Scarblade would run the total up to 14. They make for a nice early creature/ reusable creature elimination spell. If you can find room for them, they might be worth trying.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 12/19/2008
Posted By: Hayden Smith
Member Since: 8/15/2008
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| I put the decks together quickly, without a bunch of prep time. But i probably would have missed the scarblade elite anyway. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, christian. The whole point of both decks was to show that with a bit of creativity, people can challenge the " super decks " of any format. You are right about affinity in many respects. Its ability to turn skullclamp/disiple/ravager into card advantage while attacking while pinging with disiple made clamp affinity a monster deck. Im not saying that either of these decks could dominate in thier respective formats, i just wanted to show that any deck can be consistantly challenged. Thanks for the reply. |
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