 | Date Posted: 5/18/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
Number of Replies: 19
Last Post: 5/30/2009 |
| | Big problem with the all-rare draft | Hey everyone, I talked to John about the all-rare draft on the 30th and I thought he would reimburse me for the Mox Emerald or split the entry fees with me but he told me all he can give me is $100 and everything else has to go to the store. This doesn't really work for me, even if I cut out the Mox and the super-packs I will still be giving away 1000+ rares and I don't think $100 is very fair. John has complained recently that people are paying the entry fees but not really buying anything else at the store so he is wanting more income coming in or he says he can rent the building out and make a lot more money out of it. I really don't know what to do about the all-rare draft, I can't accept only $100 for all my cards and my work putting it all together, I was going to check for another place to rent a room/area for that day in Taylorville but Kroger doesn't have the community room anymore and I don't know if anyplace else here in town rents a space out or not but if The Horse isn't open at all on that Saturday John will not like that either. So I guess I wanted to get any suggestions anyone has, I thought of raising the entry fee to $40 or even $50 but I thought that would be too much for a lot of people to pay. I guess worst case I will just have to cancel it and maybe have a $10 box tournament for that day.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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 | Date Posted: 5/18/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Maybe do 2 normal drafts that day instead? Should bring in money that john will be happy with. We should be able to tough it out until there is a time where we can have the rare draft.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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 | Date Posted: 5/18/2009
Posted By: Penny Dude
Member Since: 5/1/2008
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| I would like to see a $10 Standard tournament. |
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 | Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Now while I don't know the specific finances involved with the Horse, I do know that Magic shops don't make money (I have seen many open and close in my 15 years of playing magic). I always assumed that the Horse remained open simply because John couldn't find someone who would actually pay rent.
That being said, the business model of the Horse is a mdel of failure. It is great for EVERYONE who plays there as I don't think anyone can complain, but as a business, it seems to run like a good old American car company. The money made at the horse is completely in the secondary market. And (I think) all the secondary market cards belong to Martin. The only product John sells is New product, and nobody "Needs" new product. Especially at retail prices. Boosters are almost 50% cheaper online.
And I don't know who "Owns" the boosters that get "saved" before a new set, but there is no need to spend money if when the new sets come out I immediately get 2 booster boxes of packs that I had previously won.
If John wants to actually make money he needs to change his business practices. And being a business man, I would expect him to know this. Like I said before I always assumed he was just being nice because there weren't others who wanted/ needed a space to rent.
If John wants money, then he needs to provide his own cards for secondary sales. He needs to raise prices for tournaments. He needs to charge for Soda and Candy. He needs to lower the mark up on new Product.
Of course all these changes would kill what Everyone loves about playing at the Horse and would invariably kill it. But, that is the nature of Card shops.
Of course I may have all of my details wrong. Maybe John does own all the cards. Maybe John knows the shop loses money but keeps it open for the kids (You know to keep them off drugs and stuff..... oops) Maybe John just really sucks at business and has just been fortunate his entire life.
The card shops in Springfield that are currently running may stick around, and they may not. Battlegrounds (not the name anymore) has been around for a long time, but has been in the paintball business also. Capital City does a lot with Warhammer. Mecca... not sure. But if it is the only local place that sells anime then they also have a niche.
Hopefully nothing will change, and the Horse can keep on chugging just the way it is. Everyone Loves it.
And for the current problem at hand, as far as the rare draft is concerned, It seems like the approximate cost should be ascertained before the event, and then the event should be priced accordingly. With the "Profits" split after the event. (which regarless of where the event is held, this is what should happen!) Presumably we go into business to make a little money.
Also, There may be locations in Springfield for a Rare Draft, but that would be a commute for more(?) people.
P.S. While writing this I was drinking a Mountain Dew Throwback, and I have decided that I hate it (big suprise eh?)
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| One thing that I feel has contributed to the downfall of product sales at the Horse is the reserving of packs from new, but unreleased, sets. I know I kinda started this trend and I always tried to keep on the 'down-low' with you Martin, because I knew that if everyone got on board it would cause problems. I'm sure one of the biggest sellers for the shop (at least in the past) was packs of whatever the newest set was. Now that people can reserve packs of an unreleased set from winnings, they get plenty of cards without actually purchasing them. Although it may dishearten a lot of players, the practice of letting players reserve packs from new sets should be stopped or at least limited. Say, 10 pack max or whatever.
In regards to what should be done about the all rare draft... winning a mox is a big deal, but I'm sure people would still turn out for a slightly less glamorous prize. Heck, I would play to win $100 cash! I would even be okay with raising the entry fee to (no higher than) $30.
I would also take this time to encourage everyone to take their part in helping keep the Horse alive. Whether that means playing in more tournaments, purchasing more product, or helping find ideas to make the store more profitable. If the Horse closes down, we're all going to have to start driving (probably further) to play competitive Magic!
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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 | Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I agree that holding back packs should not happen. I would also suggest an increase on entry fees. Maybe $1 per tournament wouldn't hurt anybody and it would increase revenue. I did the math and $1 per tournament is about another 1500-2000 dollars a year. If you're one of those players that lives off of tournament winnings from the Horse, then you can do one of two things, sell them to somebody who will buy them, usually at $2.00-$2.50 apiece, or open them and get the chance of having new trade stuff to get some of the newer cards when they come out. I also think having a $10-$30 tournament at the end of the month for money instead of packs is a good idea.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| With minimal advertising, I'm sure that a 500 dollar Standard Open or something would work out really well at a $25-$30 entry fee.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Oh, and Standard and Limited. More Limited, because everyone can play that format. Standard because more people have those cards than any other format. Limited, limited, limited.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I do think the reserving packs idea is simply killing our sales for new product. I don't want people to simply stop playing at tournaments once they have all the cards from the newest set they need but I also don't want to buy all those packs back from people out of my pocket either. I do think if John would sell the individual cards himself the shop would make more money with $3 for crap rares and $1 for crap uncommons you would make decent money but I probably wouldn't work there anymore because the only reason I still do is because of my individual card sales of MTG,sport cards and D&D figures, everything else is John's so I would basically be working for free for him then. I am just a little offended that he refuses to at least cover my expenses for a $300 Mox or at least split the entry fees 50/50 or even 60/40 in his favor. I don't know if everyone knows this but all the sodas, chips and candy comes out of my own pocket and has for years and I do this especially for loyal customers who have been playing at the Horse for years, consider it a perk for you guys, also when a chair breaks it's not John who goes to Walmart to replace it it is me once again out of my pocket and maybe this sounds like I'm being a tightwad but I can show you guys 30-40 broken chairs over the last few years and even at $10 a pop that's $300-$400 out of my pocket and it's not my building. I will probably have to cancel the all-rare draft this month but I will check around and see if there is a suitable place I could rent for a day maybe for sometime next month.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I am not sure I follow your math Ben, if we increase it by $1 per tournament and we play 3 tournaments a week and there are 52 weeks in a year then we are increasing by $156 a year? But you are probably right they need to be increased a little bit.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| That is some awfully nice things you do for the Hobby Horse, Martin. I just wish John wasn't as big a turd-bucket as he is. I know changing business is a hard thing to do, but I would really like you to consider bumping all the tournament entry fees up one dollar. If you just put the normal prize pool of $5 per person up and took that one extra dollar and put it towards the end of the month tournament every single time somebody paid an entry fee, then the end of the month tournament should pretty much be paid for by the time it rolls around. Anybody else have an opinion?
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| For example, you would already have $75.00 put towards the end of the month tournament when totalling up attendence for the month. And I'm sorry, but really, if anybody is going to complain about a single solitary dollar, they shouldn't be playing Magic. I can see having a $10 entry fee for the end of the month tournament, and if you get about 15 people, thats $150 dollars in the drawer right there, plus you have that 100-150 dollars from the extra dollar per entry fee, and i don't know about you, but having a prize pool around 200-300 dollars is pretty freakin sweet.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I think Ben's math included there being more than 1 person playing in each tournament.... heh.
And I don't think anyone could accuse you of being a tightwad.... Maybe a tight-ass. But those are just whispers in the hallways.
And there is more to tournament winning than just the free packs. Prestige, that pesky DCI rating. knowing I got better draws than my opponent 2 out of 3 games, lots of stuff!
Oh, and Martin, thanks again for freebies! Even if I am only enjoying them once a month these days!
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Oh yep, sometimes it seems like only one or two people show up though,lol. I suppose a slight price increase in tournament fees can be justified for all the free sodas and chips and candy etc.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| As you know, I'm up for it. Can we take a vote? lol.
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Well I bumped up all the tournaments listed on the website here by $1 (except for league play) and it looks...weird. $11 for draft and $6 for constructed tournies, let's give it a try. Also I am checking around for a place to hold the all-rare draft here in Taylorville but a lot of places are booked on the weekends for a while due to graduation parties/baby showers but I will keep checking.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Tim Scott
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I know this might suck for some people and will definitly suck for me, but the limited play SHOULD cost more. What are packs, $4 after tax? That means 3 pack draft/sealed should be $15 when you count needing prize money.
As far as freebies go, I know I am one of the guys who eats a lot of the chips but really, I could live without the food, and maybe people could volunteer drink. I have brought sodas to share to big tourneys before(All rare, 5/5/5, release events) out of my pocket and am willing to continue to do so, I just cant do it all the time. I would even make the run if people at certain tourneys(again,5/5/5 etc) wanted to pool resources to lighten Martin's financial load.
Please PLEASE have the all-rare this month I have already cleared my (otherwise empty) caleder to play. I really do not care if the prize is a mox, lotus, full box or all rare packs or a "good binder" rare, I go to those to play because they are ussually the most fun tournaments. Hell, E-bay the mox for all I care you should not have to use a bribe reward to get people to show up anyway.
BTW I haven't been there lately because I R broke, but i should be able to start up again soon.
Evil will always triump because good is dumb. |
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| Date Posted: 5/19/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| The one thing that does concern me a little bit about cancelling the all-rare for Saturday the 30th is it will inconvenience some people like you Tim. I know I have been telling people for about a month about it and I don't know if I can get a hold of Mike Estes before Sat.30th because I told him and he always plays in it and I'm not sure if he checks the website here. I will see if there is something I can do or talk to John more about it but I still think it may be better for me to have something like this away from the Horse just because John is wanting more than what I consider fair for a event like this especially since it is me not him doing all the work involved in putting a event like this on.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Requiring everyone to purchase at least one booster pack from the store, in addition to the standard $5 entry fee, might raise revenues a little. The store would be selling new merchandise, and the players would still be getting something in return for the additional entry fee. You could also prbably sell sodas and snacks and give a portion of the sales to John. Players wouldn't end up spending that much more, and the store would be bringing in additional revenue.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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 | Date Posted: 5/30/2009
Posted By: Jeremy Banks
Member Since: 5/3/2008
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| Small stuff does add up and I like Christians idea of charging something for the pop, chips and candy.Bens comments are legit as well... a dollar more looks funny but should help out the register. The pack reserving does get abused and even creating a shorter time of saving packs should help. On a side note, it KILLS me when I see people gorging on multiple sodas and freebies so much that several times I have gone to grab my one soda in the middle of a tourney and the cooler is cashed. Seriously people............ FREE does not mean ALL YOU CAN EAT OR DRINK!!!!! Cheap bastards!!!!
“Great losses often bring only a numb shock. To truly plunge a victim into misery, you must overwhelm him with many small sufferings.” - Ratadrabik of Urborg |
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