 | Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Josh Hendricks
Member Since: 8/7/2008
Number of Replies: 36
Last Post: 7/6/2009 |
| | M10 Spoiler Alert! | Ball Lightning and Clone are in!!!!
Also, the non-basic lands are like this...
Murky Tidewater~
Land Rare
Murky Tidewater enters the battlefield tapped unless you control a Island or Swamp.
{T}: Add {U} or {B} to your mana pool.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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 | Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Ball Lightning baby, Hell yes!!!!
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| The dual lands seem to promote 2 color decks vs. the 5 color decks we see now.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| I guess the "dual lands" don't count as for example Island/Swamp etc. so you can't search them out?
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| That is correct, sir. Also, everyone be sure and check out Wizards website for the rules changes that come along with M2010! There are some mind-numbing alterations being made so let's discuss them!
Changes of note:
1) Mana empties at every step as opposed to every phase and doesn't cause mana burn.
2) DAMAGE NO LONGER USES THE STACK!!! Creatures assign damage and then immediately deal it! No more combat shennanigans with damage on the stack! RIP Mogg Fanatic.
3) Due to damage no longer using the stack deathtouch and lifelink are static abilities and DO NOT stack. Say goodbye to double + lifelink, because multiple instances are now redundant!
Check out wizards.com for more info!
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| 1) Mana empties at every step as opposed to every phase
Fine with it.
and doesn't cause mana burn.
I don't really like this. I think it will lead to some sloppy playing.
2) DAMAGE NO LONGER USES THE STACK!!! Creatures assign damage and then immediately deal it! No more combat shennanigans with damage on the stack! RIP Mogg Fanatic.
I think this kind of dumbs down combat. It makes combat tricks less tricky. I also don't like the lining up of blockers, but you usually only block with 1 or 2 creatures so that might not be that big of a deal.
3) Due to damage no longer using the stack deathtouch and lifelink are static abilities and DO NOT stack. Say goodbye to double + lifelink, because multiple instances are now redundant!
I'm fine with this. Also a creature with Deathtouch and Trample is pretty nice. You only need to assign 1 dmg to a blocker and can assign the rest to the player. "If you have a creature that has Deathtouch and Trample, that creature can get away with only assigning one damage to each blocker and then the rest to the player. One point of Deathtouch damage is considered lethal damage."
I wonder how Banding will change. You also can't get exiled cards with Wish effects.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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 | Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| I love the new rules changes. I have absolutely hated "damage on the stack" tricks ever since I started playing this game. It makes it a lot easier for newer players to understand the game, and it will most likely incorporate new strategy into the game that I am looking forward to trying to break. lol
Pwn'd. |
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| Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Ben Warren
Member Since: 3/18/2008
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| Rejoice casual players! You're correct more often now! I will say, however, that a lot of mistakes are made during combat that affect the outcome of a game. It makes me sad that some of my tricks are now gone! These rules changes are going to make it a bit more difficult for the experienced players to win all of the time, I think. They just continuously make it easier for everybody to have an equal chance to win. It makes me sick. lol
Pwn'd. |
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| It really does simplify things for newer players. The long term health of the game depends on attracting newer players, so I am fine with the new rules simplifications.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| No more damage on the stack will take some getting used to but I guess it will simplify things for newer players.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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 | Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| Damage on the stack is the biggest change so far. Mana burn is fine but kind of cheats. New rules will take some time to get used to.
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 | Date Posted: 6/10/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| the damage rule is kind of a reversal from 6th edition (I think?) It used to be that blocking was "Something" the creature could do, similar to tapping. So you couldn't block with a prodigal sorcerer and tap it to deal 2 damage. It either did one or the other.
That being said.... I hate the first 2, last one... couldn't care less.
Magic is a strategy game and a thinking game. It seems that they keep taking these elements out of the game. Maybe they are bringing the game down because they have done their market research and showed that there are tons of bo-tards out there who would love to play, but it is just "to hard" So in the end it is still about making the money.
Oh, and no mana burn negates LOTS of cards making them completely useless.... Hell, even ante cards can be played casually. What am i to do now with my 3000 power surges?
I hate change......
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| In my experience, the damage on the stack rule is the most confusing element of the game to new players. Understanding it gave veteran players a big advantage over newer players, but I'm just as glad to see it go.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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 | Date Posted: 6/11/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Wow, now I fucking hate this game...
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 6/11/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| the 90 mile an hour fast balls and the qicked curve balls have always been a struggle for me.... that's why I'm not in the Majors. I should get Wizards to call MLB on my behalf.
AND the 10 foot Rim. I so cannot dunk on that. If somehow the NBA could make the game easier for me.
And Chess.... if all my pieces moved like the queen does, that game could be an accessable game for even the worst inbred.
BRING BACK BURY!!!!!
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| Bury could (should) easily be a keyword.
"True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read." - Pliny the Elder |
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| Date Posted: 6/11/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| Does the blocking player choose the order his creatures get damaged? The explanation was a little confusing. Say you double block a 3/3 with a 2/2 and a 1/3. YOu choose the 2/2 as the first blocked and 1/3 second. Does he have to kill put lethal damage on the 2/2 before dealing damage to the 1/3? Also after blockers are chosen is there a chance to do combat trick before ummmmmm..... damage?
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 | Date Posted: 6/11/2009
Posted By: adam olson
Joined before August '08
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| They could easily make bury a keyword. Explain once what it means and move on for new players. The only rule that really bothers me is the first one. Someone plays a speel that costs 3 using 2 of the Ravnica bounce lands, but gets no repercautions for the extra mana used, that's just a mess waiting to happen.
"Have you ever seen a more beautifully punted baby?"- Bill Dauterive |
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 | Date Posted: 6/11/2009
Posted By: Travis Peifer
Joined before August '08
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| I wonder if they are bringing back mini-ball.
They better reprint vizzerdrix and trained orgg. Just kidding everyone.... don't stone me.
Hampton: "Can you read, my son?" Bubbles: "Well, that depends, can you go fuck yourself?" |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| The full explanation is on Wizards.com Paul, I am pretty sure the attacking player still gets to assign damage as he likes but from what it says you can't wait until blockers are actually blocking to do any combat tricks, you can giant growth a creature of yours before blocks are made but it kind of makes giant growth effects much less effective in my opinion.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| This just seems really stupid on their part. The rules have been this way forever, so why the hell should they change them because a few new players can't be bothered with learning them? I had to learn them when I started, and so did everyone else here.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/give-stacked-combat-damage-a-chance
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| The thing is new players are still going to have to learn about "the stack" for instant speed versus sorcery speed, counterspell wars,etc. so why try to dumb down combat so much? The stack can be complicated but new players can learn it so I guess I don't get why this rule change. Here are the new combat rules from Wizards:
5) Combat Damage No Longer Uses the Stack
The Reality: The intricate system via which combat is currently handled creates many unintuitive gameplay moments. For starters, "the stack" is a difficult concept, even after all these years, so it is no wonder that many players go about combat without invoking it at all. Second, creatures disappearing after damage has been put on the stack leads to a ton of confusion and disbelief: How is that Mogg Fanatic killing two creatures? How did that creature kill mine but make your Nantuko Husk big enough to survive? How can you Unsummon your creature and have it still deal damage? While many of us may be used to the way things are now, it makes no sense in terms of a game metaphor and only a bit more sense as a rule.
The Fix: As soon as damage is assigned in the combat damage step, it is dealt. There is no time to cast spells and activate abilities in between; the last time to do so prior to damage being dealt is during the declare blockers step.
This was a particularly tricky change to implement, as it had the potential to create bad experiences in situations where double blocking occurs and the defending player has access to a damage prevention ability (or anything similar). If damage was prevented to one creature, the attacker would just kill the other, which is unintuitive. Players expect to be able to use their healing spells to save creatures that are actually going to die. To solve problems like these, during the declare blockers step, if a creature is blocked by multiple creatures, the attacker immediately announces an order in which that attacking creature will be assigning damage to the blockers. When it comes time to actually deal the damage, lethal damage must be assigned to the first blocker before any can be assigned to the second, and so on. Now, in complex combat situations there will be some foreknowledge of which creatures are in the most danger before damage is dealt.
This is not as sweeping as it sounds. In the majority of cases, creatures attack, creatures block, and combat looks the same way it did before—minus the chance for counterintuitive tricks after "damage on." The majority of the explanation below covers multiple blocks.
The Details: This changes what happens during the declare blockers step and what happens during the combat damage step.
Combat Phase
* Beginning of combat step
* Declare attackers step
* Declare blockers step
* Combat damage step
* End of combat stepThe first thing that happens during the declare blockers step is that the defending player (big surprise!) declares blockers. This works the same as before, with an addition. If multiple creatures block the same attacker, the attacking player orders those blockers to show which is first in line for that attacker's damage, which is second, and so on. This is all part of the "declare blockers" action. Once that's done, players can cast spells and activate abilities.
The first thing that happens during the combat damage step is that combat damage is assigned. If an attacker is blocked by multiple creatures, the attacking player can divide its combat damage among them. The player starts by assigning damage to the first blocking creature in line. If that creature is assigned lethal damage, further damage may be assigned to that creature and/or the next one in line. If lethal damage is assigned to the second one, the attacking player can move on to the third, and so on. This works very similarly to trample. So ... what is "lethal damage"? For the purposes of damage assignment, "lethal damage" is the amount of damage necessary for a creature to be destroyed, ignoring all abilities and damage prevention effects. In other words, it's that creature's toughness minus any damage that's already been dealt to it or that is simultaneously being assigned to it. It doesn't matter whether that creature has protection, is indestructible, will prevent the next 8 damage that would be dealt to it, etc.
Even though you announce your damage assignments sequentially, the assignment process is treated as though it's simultaneous. It's like declaring attackers or blockers: A player announces what he or she will do, then the whole shebang is checked to see if it's legal. If it's not, it's all wiped out, the game backs up, and the player starts again. Once everyone has announced legal damage assignment schemes, the damage is immediately (and simultaneously) dealt. Then state-based effects are checked, so creatures that have actually been dealt lethal damage are destroyed. Finally, players can cast spells and activate abilities.
If you want to activate regeneration abilities, cast damage prevention spells, pump your creature's toughness, or do any other kinds of combat tricks, you now need to do so during the declare blockers step. At that time, combat is deterministic enough to give you a good idea of what's coming. You'll be able to tell whether you need to regenerate your blocker, for example.
The declare blockers step is also the time you need to determine whether you want to Unsummon a creature, sacrifice Mogg Fanatic, sacrifice a creature to pump up Nantuko Husk, or the like. An important aspect of the new combat damage system is that only creatures that are still on the battlefield—and still in combat—get to deal combat damage. A creature can no longer start to swing its fist to punch, vanish from the battlefield, and then have that punch land.
This new system has a number of corner cases associated with it. I'll touch on a few here.
* If a creature has the ability to block multiple attackers, and does so, it uses the same order-and-assign system for dividing its damage among those attackers. In this case, the defending player orders the attacking creatures.
* If multiple creatures are blocking an attacker and one of them leaves combat, the relative order of the other creatures doesn't change.
* If one or more creatures is blocking an attacker and a new creature enters the battlefield blocking that attacker (I'm thinking of Flash Foliage), the attacking player inserts the new creature into the existing order wherever he or she wants. It can be first, last, or somewhere in between. The relative order of the other creatures doesn't change.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| You may want to check out Wizards.com because they illustrate everything for you. My biggest problem is if you still need to teach new players about the stack then what would be so difficult about teaching them damage on the stack and combat tricks? The new rules really make pump spells like giant growth just kind of dumb because there won't be any element of surprise once those blocks have been made.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I am just severely dissapointed in wizards. Might as well start playing yu-gi-oh...
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| so...... If I attack with a 4/4 and you block with 4 1/3's. I don't get to kill them all with a second main phase pyroclasm????? this totally sucks my balls.
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| yeah...because that scenario happens ALL the time!
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Matthew Ratz
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| well now you are just being a turd burglar! I don't know that THAT scenario has ever happened, but I do know that there have been multiple times where I have assigned less than lethal damage to multiple creatures so that i could pyroclasm after, or jund charm or any number of pseudo wrath effects that wouldn't be possible without less than lethal combat damage.
I have also had it done to me. So yes, It does happen. Suck it!
Playing to Win is Playing for Fun - Matthew Ratz |
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| I was just talkin' some smack. It does suck that this trick is now gone; however, what's good for the goose IS good for the gander so at least you don't have to worry about this happening to you again!
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| The thing I hate about it is a scenario like this: I have 3 2/2 creatures to my opponents 2 2/2 creatures and he is at 9 life and all tapped out and no cards in hand etc. and I have Might of Oaks and the mana to cast it I can not kill him that turn because I can't wait to see which creatures he blocks and then respond with the Might of Oaks, I can only play in during his declare blockers step in which case he will obviously block my now 9/9 guy and live another turn, I hate that when my opponent should be dead that turn he now gets another turn to topdeck a WOG or something.
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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Not true. You can still play Might after blockers but before damage is assigned.
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Martin Stanley
Member Since: 2/29/2008
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| Oh ok in rereading it I guess I can still cast the Might after blocks have been declared, I guess I misread it a bit. I still like the idea of damage on the stack because I never thought unsummoning a creature back to your hand with damage on the stack was counterintuitive, it just made sense to me because there are supposed to be two mighty wizards battling it out and why not summon a creature back to your spellbook/mind? I did always hate the tap Mishri's Factory to make itself a 3/3 and kill another 3/3 dude though, so is that allowed under the new rules?
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Sure. You would do that right after declaring blockers as well
"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody." Barack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| I've survived a game in a draft by using Fencer Clique's ability with damage on the stack. I killed some creatures and it was awesome but I had to keep drawing it. =( Not having mana burn will cause problems and about everything uses the stack. Even after this change they still need to learn the stack. This "change" doesn't make the stack an easier concept, it just gets rid of one of the uses. If it's so hard to learn, why are you playing Magic? I can't count how many times I've said "Damage on the stack, I respond with...." And it kills the use of some cards: Mogg Fanatic, Fulminator Mage, Ravenous Baloth, Nantuko Husk, Greater Gargadon, even Mirrorweave->(very narrow case say you attack with 4 2/2's against your opponents 1/3 and 3 2/2's. They block all of yours with all of their's, damage on the stack use mirroweave to turn all of your 2/2's into 1/3's and they all survive.)
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| Date Posted: 6/12/2009
Posted By: Paul King
Member Since: 4/12/2008
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| Oh, and I get how the choosing of the order of blockers works. Attacker chooses.
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| Damage using the stack was added around the time of 6th Edition. I have played with the older rules and the new and have no real preference between the two. I do think removing damage from the stack makes it easier to teach the game to new players, and it makes the game more enjoyable for casual players. I noticed no real difference in my ability to beat newer players in tournament level matches using either rule set and don't expect any real difference with the switch. There are still multiple opportunities for veteran players gain tactical advantages over newcomers.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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 | Date Posted: 7/6/2009
Posted By: Aaron Durham
Joined before August '08
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| its all gay
who shot who in the what now? |
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