| Date Posted: 8/3/2010
Posted By: The Mike Dale
Member Since: 5/31/2009
Number of Replies: 15
Last Post: 8/20/2010 |
| | Best deck in standard? | I have been wondering about this. For the past year and a half, that question was naver really in doubt. Fearies when it was legal and then jund after that. Before M11, I still thought that jund was still the king. I think that M11 has changed things, however. Mana leak has to be the best common reprint ( except MAYBE lt.bolt ) ever. So I will ask you guys this question = What, in your opinion, is the best deck in standard. I think that it is esper control. And I will tell you why, It doesnt have a bad matchup. The way that I have esper built, I have rough matches, but nothing bad. But I might be favored unfairly towards my favorite deck in standard, so let me know what you guys think. In my opinion, Esper, titan/ramp, U/W control, jund, and conscription are probably still the best decks. Thats my opinion, let me know if I am wrong.
" We are 5 days away from fundamentaly transforming the united states of america " - Barrack Obama |
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 | Date Posted: 8/4/2010
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I think U/W control and UWr control+ajani are the top decks right now. They really don't have a terrible matchup.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| U/W control is probably the best right now and even after rotation it doesn't lose much right?
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 8/4/2010
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Mind spring and O-Ring.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| O-Ring maybe but Jace's Ingenuity can replace Mind Spring to some degree maybe?
Terry Hoitz: I'm like a peacock, you gotta let me fly! |
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| Date Posted: 8/4/2010
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| Ingenuity is already better in some of the counter-heavy versions. Path will be replaced with condemn, with I personally dislike, as it dosen't stop titans and Fauna Shaman as well.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| I also like Jace's Ingenuity better if you are playing counters. I also think mono-red is one of the top decks in the format. Blue white control is pretty much the only thing it loses to, other than possibly Esper (which I pretty much group together with blue-white control). it is strong versus Jund and absolutely destroys Titan/Ramp and Mythic Conscription strategies. When they played mono-red versus Titan/Ramp for the deck matchup column on Star City the other day, mono-red went 23-2 before sideboarding and 14-11 after sideboarding. Obstinate Baloth helped out of the sideboard, but they found it wasn't enough unless you drew 2-3 of them early. The blue green player lost several games even after playing two baloths and lost twice when he played three. A few weeks earlier mono-red went 24-1 against Mythic Conscription main deck and 15-10 after sideboarding. Even the blue white match is winnable. You usually have the advantage in game one, but things get rough after sideboarding. You can still get the perfect curve out draw and simply blow your opponent out by turn four after sideboarding though, and you will usually win if your opponent keeps a slow opening hand. I think mono-red has an unfair reputaion for being a non-skill intensive deck. Playing it well and playing around sideboard hate actually takes quite a bit of decision making and play skill.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 8/4/2010
Posted By: The Mike Dale
Member Since: 5/31/2009
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| I agree with you, christian, when you say that mono-red takes skill to play. I still think, however, that beating mono-red is all about deck construction. Simply put, if you want to beat mono red, you can and probably will. If you underestimate mono-red, and dont pack the hate, then it will beat you. Titan ramp, for example, could drastically improve thier chances vs mono-red by changing a few cards. Alot of people have told me that esper is a good matchup for mono-red. These people claim that game one is 90% in reds favor, while games 2 and 3 are about 50-50. But to attack ANY deck, you have to know the strong and weak points of that deck. For reference, my esper list = 2 island, 3 plains, 3 swamp, 4 marshflats, 4 creeping tar pit, 2 celestial collonade, 1 tech edge, 2 drowned catacombs, 2 glacial fort, 3 arcane sanctum, 4 wall of omens, 2 abyssal persecutor, 4 baneslayer, 1 gideon, 4 jace m sculptor, 4 manaleak, 4 path, 2 doomblade, 2 negate, 4 espercharm, 3 day of judgement. Board = 1 techedge, 1 doomblade, 1 day, 2 negate, 2 flashfreeze, 2 haunting echoes, 3 durress, 3 c.purge. I actually claim to have a good match vs. mono-red. I have never lost to it, beating it 5 or 6 times. The trick to beating red, I have found, is attacking thier creatures. In boarding, I remove the jaces, days, and 1 persecutor for 3 purge, 2 negate, 2 flashfreeze, 1 doomblade. I lose 8 four-drops and gain 8 two-drops. After boards, I am perfectly suited to attack the decks strength. You see, I suppose that good and or bad matches depend upon deck-construction. I am just trying to improve my match vs. U/W control without giving up anything vs. mono-red.
" We are 5 days away from fundamentaly transforming the united states of america " - Barrack Obama |
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| Date Posted: 8/4/2010
Posted By: The Mike Dale
Member Since: 5/31/2009
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| I read the article that you mentioned, christian, anout mono-red vs. turboland. It seems that red kills that deck. I must say, however, that any blue deck built for standard or extended that doesnt include 4 mana leak isnt properly built. 4 fogs in the board, instead of 2 would help. There is also the grazing gladeheart from zendikar that could be good vs. red.
" We are 5 days away from fundamentaly transforming the united states of america " - Barrack Obama |
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| Grazing Gladehart has potential, although I wouldn't expect him to live through more than one landfall. He could at least soak up a burn spell and gain 2 life. 4 Fog would help, but it's a question of how much sideboard space you want to devote to beating mono-red. 2 more Fog plus 1-2 Flashfreeze would probably take you up to a little better than 50% after sideboarding, but you would be devoting almost all your sideboard space to defeating mono-red. And you would still likely lose the match more often than not, as you virtually can't win game one. I think the better move would be to conceded the match against mono-red and focus on beating the other decks.
White seems to be the color that can consistently crush red if it decides to devote enough sideboard space to it. Kor Firewalker, Baneslayer Angel, Celestial Purge and Leyline of Sanctity are brutal vs. mono-red. And they are even better if you add blue for Flashfreeze.
In the article they mention that Jund could probably make more efficient use of Obstinant Baloth against mono-red, as it has more threats and more removal. This makes sense to me. Jund has actual removal and creatures that can interact with the red deck, rather than just trying to combo off on turn 5-6, while the red deck often kills them by turn 4.
I think you are probably right about blue-white and/ or Esper being the best deck at the moment. Neither decks seems to have a really terrible matchup. I have always found Grixis almost impossible to beat when I have played blue-white, but it doesn't see much play. Grixis is also virtually a bye for mono-red. I'm told turboland destroys blue white, but I have never actually played the matchup.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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| Date Posted: 8/5/2010
Posted By: The Mike Dale
Member Since: 5/31/2009
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| Your observations seem right, christian. Esper seems 50-50 vs. U/W control, but I dont fear any other matchup, except possibly jund. Alot of detirmining matchups is based on either deck construction or stratagy. For example, mono-red is well represented down here. If 40 people show up for FNM, you can gaurentee at least 8 to 12 people will play RDW. The prevailing stratagy in the RDW mirror, I am told, is dragons claw. I dont like that stratagy, as it is based on luck. Whomever draws more claws is probably the winner. Instead, if I ever play mono-red, I am going to load up on the 3 drop from M11 that kills artifacts. In the mirror, I think that would give me an advantage. In esper, I hate the mirror and U/W control. To make those matches better, I maindeck 2 negates and board haunting echoes. Resolve echoes and you win vs. almost any control match. I posted my list up above, if you have any ideas as to how to make my control match better, let me know. Thanks.
" We are 5 days away from fundamentaly transforming the united states of america " - Barrack Obama |
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| I'm a big fan of Haunting Echoes in the control mirror too. If cast in the mid-late game it is effectively game over. I really think any control deck that uses black has a huge advantage over non-black control decks. I find that boarding 3-4 Duress along with some combination of Negate/Countersquall really gives you a big edge post sideboarding. Malakir Bloodwitch and Lilliana Vess are both highly effective weaspons in the control mirror as well. Malakir Bloodwitch basically require a Day of Judgement or Martial Coup to deal with her or she dominates the game and makes opposing Baneslayers irrelevant. She is also great at killing planeswalkers. If I play Lilliana I just use her discard ability turn after turn to generate huge card advantage. I also like a singleton copy of Identity Crisis. Like Haunting Echoes it is also a single shot game winner, especially when you can use Duress to make sure it resolves. I try to hold onto Duress as long as I can, to make sure I can resolve something decisive. It's sometimes worth playing on turn 3 though, if you fear your opponent is holding a planeswalker, and you don't have anything in hand to deal with it.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - Friedrich Nietzsche |
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 | Date Posted: 8/20/2010
Posted By: Steve Jordan
Member Since: 4/26/2008
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| mythic + fauna shaman and venge while keeping baneslayer is the best deck in standard right now. Evan built his from scratch and it is amazballz. I have to give him credit. He built it before there was a list on starcity or deck check. It has three tool boxes in the form of veng, conscription, and fauna. Other than that it has ramp and fatties. Throw in a little knight of the have to kill right now, for protection. It does every thing you want a deck to do in standard right now. It ramps, it has fatties, it can tutor, use the grave yard, be evasive through Gidion, and even sort of draw cards with jace. THE DECK IS SICK. You should ask evan for the list. |
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| Date Posted: 8/20/2010
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| It obviously only wins because I am playing it. You will 2-2 with it ;)
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 8/20/2010
Posted By: Zack Strait
Member Since: 4/9/2008
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| I also need to replace the 2 gideon with 2 elspeth, as they are much better.
"The shit look like ya hand when you be doin a shadow puppet for a duck n shit nahmean. Shit be lookin like it jus caught a pop fly in center field n whatever whatever nahmean." re: Ghostface Killa on lil' kim's vagina. |
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| Date Posted: 8/20/2010
Posted By: Steve Jordan
Member Since: 4/26/2008
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| We will see how I do or if I am even playing it. |
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